This paper discusses how outdoor recreation and education personnel can work with the laws, regulations, patterns, and vagaries of educational and institutional permitting on public lands in the United States. The difference between a permit and a management plan is defined: a permit authorizes a specific activity with restrictions of amount, duration, and other conditions; a management plan relates to group size and recognition of need. The interrelationships among legislation, interpretation, regulation, and agency discretion and at what point each can be challenged are outlined. The terms "commercial use,""outfitting,""guiding," and "educational use" are defined by Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management regulations. Considerations and recommendations for obtaining and maintaining permits include: knowing the agency's management plan; knowing the area, its problems and recreational use pressures; utilizing personal contacts; working with adverse local parties; requesting reconsideration of permit denial; and getting involved in the management planning process for the areas where the group wishes to operate. (SAS)